[Deleted]

They just don't seem realistic enough. I mean sure making them hard to avoid is great and all, but it doesn't seem very realistic at all to have them every single time they're used regardless of how often they may have missed before. Yes, I've seen this cbox conversation. Maybe we should just give them high modifiers instead. After all, you don't see people who play Smash wait for a Final Smash to land when it's aimed at them. Naturally they want to try and avoid it if at all possible, and naturally the character you're playing will want to as well unless they're suicidal, don't see it coming, ect. I may not have the best sense of balance, but I prefer realism to fighting broken with broken, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here that feels that way.

[Cielmira]

Unlike the game there isn't a super obvious announcement that you're about to launch a Final Smash (unless you write it as such). You don't have to chase/fight over a smash ball, you don't glow a rainbow of colors when you have it, and there are a decent number of Final Smashes in the game that are super difficult to avoid; impossibly so depending on the stage your on. You also only get 1 for the entire thread, unlike the game where you get as many as randomness provides short of special settings.

I'm all up for more realistic attacks, but that's up to the writers to write good fluff. Granted, depending on said fluff and the situation it is possible to miss with final smashes. A good example of this is during the Zero & Quote rescue mission of Muondo when Zero used his final smash against an enemy hoard of Dodongo that were way out of range. Obviously this missed since he effectively used his ultimate attack when no one was around to attack.


I'm not the admin that ultimately decides on these things of course so don't feel discouraged if you have ideas on how to better handle a 1 time ultimate attack that is incredibly disheartening when it misses or is cancelled out.

[Deleted]

True. If a high modifier doesn't work, it might not be a bad idea to have Ultimate Attacks usable twice with a nerf. Some attacks don't give much of a warning though, likke Zelda/Sheik's Light Arrow, or the Dark Pit staff. They just have a narrow range. Easy to avoid if you expect them, but usually fatal if they hit. Then there's the transformations like Mega Evolution or even Giga Bowser. All you can do is run or try to fight back.

[Cielmira]

As far as I know the transformation ones don't mean that now every attack the character takes is an auto hit, only the FS' that are explicitly attacks follow that. At least, that's now how I've been running Krexix or Cynder. They've even each been thrown out of their transformation due to an opponents strong attack or some other environment effect.

Having some range of effect limiter may not be a bad idea, but even then it's completely up to fluff of the writer when using the FS. As for nerfing them... that then just makes them less special. Might as well just be another normal attack but with a long cool down to balance out its strength. Which can already borderline happen with normal moves. As a character gains age in this place that would drown out the FS.

[WolfEx]

I may not always be around, but just to throw my few cents in.

When I created the site, I wanted to give people freedom. It was already hard enough to do dice rolls and modifiers and such, I'll admit I was iffy, but I will say this does help prevent people from dodging everything all the time. The freedom was a bit abused. And at this point I'd like to keep at least that freedom of ultimate attack. I get you like realism, but let's be really real, Nintendo never aimed for that level of realism you speculate. We originally aimed to match the canon of the game, and I admit we stemmed somewhat off, but we are still glued to the basis of the Smash games regardless and to put restrictions and make the ultimate attacks more complicated and less...well...free would be a little much.

I hope you understand where I am comin from. The original idea in the smash games is final smashes really can't be dodged or blocked, some could, yes, but then if we allowed some and not others to be avoided or blocked that wouldn't be fair to every character and their unique attack/style traits, because every character has their own unique final smash unique to them, and for some characters their uniqueness comes from more of an attack that matches their personality, style, maybe even their humorous side. It makes things exciting that way, and not all final smashes should ever be the same and just obliterate everything in an almighty hailstorm of death or transformation of godliness. Some characters don't swing that way.

As Ciel said, it's up to the writer. If the person writing out their ultimate attack which should be written as epic as possible and well, ultimate as possible, don't show specifics properly then that is something you should probably address with them. If it is an app issue you have with their character and the way their final smash is written or it isn't specific enough, ask that person about it to clarify, and if it still doesn't satisfy, you can PM one of us to relook over the app and their final smash to make sure it is viable.

All in all, the site was created to be as canon as possible and bring an element of fun and individual twists and flare to personal characters. Character creation is probably the biggest admiration on this site by many, and the connection each character has and the choices they make really help make the place successful. The more we curve or nerf that as you say to be more of a pain rather than a pleasure for characters, the less fun it will be.

Because this is a forum roleplay, it is a play by post, turn by turn game. Unfortunately we don't have the means to do everything side by side live and in real time like the video game. You just have to kind of realize that each post is in time with the previous one, no matter how many days later a reply comes. I've stressed description and post specifics many times with everyone, sometimes you have to remind them again.

I hope to have answered your concerns.

[Deleted]

All Final Smashes can somehow be avoided, bad aim or no. Even if it were the original intention in Brawl for them all to hit, things change. Take Ryu for example. Two Final Smashes. Next thing you know, everyone is getting a second FS. Better yet, look at the changed Final Smashes, like Kirby's easier to avoid Ultra Sword, or Pit's more difficult to use Three Sacred Treasures. Then again, his old FS wasn't that great to begin with, but with his new one, you avoid the last portion by standing still and it's the most devastating part. Even King DDD's got changed to something harder to land. Even PK Starstorm got revamped into something that, while controllable, has a higher chance of missing multiple targets. The way things are here, a custom character can have a finger flick as their FS here and have similar effects, granted they'd have to have some sort of fluff to make it seem more than a mere finger flick. Truthfully a modifier would be better. Like maybe a +10 Modifier to make it difficult to avoid. That means it will hit most of the time while allowing it to miss occasionally. That would mean that 45% of the time, it would be less than 20, but never less than 10. It would also add some challenge as not everyone likes to have an attack always land.

You can ask around. I'm sure I'm not only one here who feels this way.

I also feel that they're meant to be very flashy, but either more accurate or more powerful in others. Just look at the narrow range of the Dark Pit Staff and Light Arrows. Instead of being easy to land, they're just deadly with close-ups. The Finales and Mii Swordfighter FS are also flashy, but best used at the edge of a stage since they have wide ranges, but lack launch power.

Maybe they should get two rolls that a modifier could be split between. The first checks accuracy while the other checks power, but then again it's really underwhelming to face someone who rolls a 1 in power and disheartening to be the one who rolled it.

(The original version of this post was better and longer, but I lost that, so now I have type this. Fml)

[Mr. Game & Watch]

While yes, I understand the purpose of Final Smashes being avoidable, it would not be so simple to implement. The addition of modifiers, while it makes sense and would work, there are some people that don’t make rolls and I wouldn’t want to implement something that would make rolling required. Some people like rolling for combat, others don’t, so adding the modifier would be a moot point to the people who don’t like to use dice anyway. As well, as Ciel has stated before, if an Ultimate Attack is used so illogically that it wouldn’t make sense for it to land, then it won’t or at least I wouldn’t let it.

And as Shadow and Ciel have already pointed out, you can’t quite make comparisons between the game and this website because they are two completely different media forms and lend themselves to different rules so that they may work independently. And yes, as you said someone could just make their Final Smash a flick to the nose, but who cares if they do? It’s not like a flick to the nose would damage your character all that much, regardless of it being a Final Smash. If anything, the joke would be on the member who made their Final Smash so incredibly useless.

Allow me to put some perspective on this, most missions take months to complete, let’s say you get four months into a campaign and you finally get the opportunity to use your Final Smash in a cool and effective way and then you roll a one. The big baddie dodges it with no issue and that leaves you incredibly disappointed and you don’t get another shot at it. You could say that’s fair, I wouldn’t argue with you, but that puts all the effort that someone put into their Ultimate Attack to waste. It’d be like if you wrote an in depth description of a room and then nobody entered it. Maybe I’m taking it too much from the writer’s perspective than a roleplaying perspective, but it’s what I do.

If you believe that so many other people think this way about Final Smashes, we can put up a poll in order to collect a consensus on the subject, but from what other members have told me so far, they prefer Ultimate Attacks being unavoidable. Perhaps there are more and haven't become vocal about it, so a poll would give me a better idea of how many people do have a similar issue.

[WolfEx]

I see your points, all good.

However, you should also see the cons in your suggestion. Adding modifiers is fine and dandy, but it goes back to the root of the final smash itself.

Here's the flaw....Let's say Shadow The Hedgehog who has a wide spread FS, goes up against someone like Ragna, whose is a focused combo FS. If you think about it, what sense would it make to roll for an FS that hits everyone and everything while an FS like a combo or a special close up attack is clearly very different. There would be an imbalance and it would be unfair, since Shadow's logically, and as it is written, shouldn't miss, it isn't supposed to. While Ragna would sensibly have to roll for his and Shadow gets out scotch free cause his FS is more wide spread. And it wouldn't make sense to roll for a wide spread ultimate.

You also have to think about how others would measure up to eachother in terms of power, speed, stats, and the like. Then we would have to spend alot of time factoring that in as well. Cause if we add modifier's to a FS we also have to include and consider the modifiers on the stats, and then it becomes really unfair, especially to people who have characters purposefully with a weaker more focused final smash and characters with a wide spread hit everything smash. Then we have to consider characters that can fly, float, and etc and figure that out as well and then decide if a FS is a wisdom based move for the character since you suggest a modifier, or strength based, and etc for the roll decision.

I just think stats are too confusing and prominent as it is after talking to GW, and to do as you suggest will take some time for all of us to discuss and more calculating and computing to make it fair for everyone, and it would be nice to have at least one thing that you don't have to worry about rolling and numbers over. In fact, rolling has started to become dominant over post quality and story alot of the time, which is bothersome to many who are trying to focus more on the creativity and such. We are all fans of different things, some enjoy stats and battling more than others, while there are other members that enjoy the imaginative details they get to provide in their posts. I feel with your suggestion things will be too one sided and predominantly about the stats and what hits and what doesn't. It shouldn't be about that.

And as you said, for those that roll low, it would take alot of the fun and excitement out to use their one FS in the topic only to have it miss and be wasted. And then just as easily, the other player can use theirs and completely destroy them without fault since their chances of rolling higher are usually greater against a low roll. Right now FS's hit every time to give everyone equal opportunity to feel like their characters have SOME kind of power, even though for example, they may not be powerful at all.

And for characters whose FS's are buffs or don't do any damage, your suggestion of modifier's also further confuses things. There's just alot to think about and take into consideration. I see your desires, but we are not entirely play by play, the video game. And we don't want to make things too challenging and nerve racking for people, and I certainly would hate to see this site being more about competitive fighting than enjoyment.

Ultimately, I would like to see other opinions in this topic though from the community and see what everyone thinks. Because I can't speak for everyone's likes, but I know more rolling requirements and calculating numbers won't be much fun.