[PolarStarQuote]

Steven Universe has Achieved the Potential for Whitelisting, Due to its connections with the Ubisoft Game 'Brawlhalla!'

Now, In these whitelist tests, we the staff need to see reasoning as to Why, or Why Not these characters should be added onto Li. We Primarily look for Aesthetic reasons 'Would these characters stand out/Look out of place on Li', 'Can these characters Add to Li and give Interesting materials for Li?', And of course 'Is this material suitable for Li.' We are not looking for, And will ignore arguments against the Whitelist System in general. Just Arguments for or Against the series!

[Deleted]

As much as I would love to see more canons that aren't a direct game on-site, unfortunately, I need to say no. A hard no. There are a few reasons that I would like to voice, and be warned, things may get a little uncomfortable, and it should - Steven Universe is a very uncomfortable canon for me personally as well. I just want to voice my mind. Note that it's okay to like a show, and its intricacies. I believe, however, that the themes that are expressed in this universe (that incidentally is Steven's) is not something we should include on our site. Even with our 2/2/2 Rating, it pushes a LOT of issues.

Effectively, we ruled out the Nazi symbology with Atzu-whatever Blitzkampf, namely the bad guys there. From my understanding, Steven Universe not only has the gem equivalents of that, but sends the message that they're to be forgiven, that they're capable of change and reform. While change and reform can happen, actively (and repeatedly after failed attempts) trying to forgive an unforgivable crime is a bad message to send.

For this point, in short, the Steven Universe fanbase is absolutely toxic. From the Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Old World rulings, we determined that a toxic fanbase (to which we explained in great detail on Discord) can be a valid reason to rule against a specific canon. As demonstrated in this somewhat controversial video (some themes are dark, but it's only controversial because the fanbase is ravenous), even the mere notion of a character not having some 'inclusive' trait, or having a trait scrubbed, turns the vocal minority wild and ravenous. While some may indeed be good, bad apples can ruin the bunch.

If you don't mind more 'charged' opinions, and would like a synopsis regardless of its content in the maturity scale (because, yes, Steven Universe also covers these themes), please also refer to this video (another controversial one due to the fanbase). It summarizes all my griefs and gripes with the fanbase in its entirety, as well as a few more grisly themes that the show portrays. The matter of fusion is best left unsaid here, and should be pursued at your own discretion. Needless to say, there would be serious issues if the symbology of the fusions were brought to Li.

tl;dr and tl;dw - Steven Universe sends some incredibly, unequivocally poisonous messages and fosters a rather unsightly fanbase in its vocal majority. I would dread the day that this becomes Ligal.

[Mr.BadTimes]

Ooooh boy, here we go.

Alright, I am just gonna start with my short answer being Yes to approve Steven Universe. Now that I have that out of the way, time for the long answer.

Now, I can understand the reasoning behind why Steven Universe should have an absolute N O to being approved, from the toxic fanbase, to it's controversial messaging, symbolism. Trust me, I wholeheartedly get that and we should -at least- keep an eye on the subject at hand, and be careful with who is going to apply any and all characters from the show, from Steven Universe to Yellow, Blue, or White Diamond.

However, I just want to point this out: No matter what you like, somewhere in any fandom, there are always going to be a toxic fandom. From Steven Universe, to Undertale, Nintendo, Final Fantasy, Splatoon, anywhere. There is no escaping it. I want to remind the people to judge a fanbase based on it's toxic fandom, while valid, must also keep in mind about the toxic fanbase that dwells within the characters that we play as.

To me, I feel as though Steven Universe surprisingly fits fits well into the story of Li already. When you look very carefully, Steven Universe, as it's implied, shows elements of buildings, landscapes, and monuments of a bygone age when the Diamonds used to control the planet, such structures are the equivilent of a post-apocalyptic.

Then there was the whole War against the Diamonds, that, in itself, reveals more locations that have such themes; the Gem Kindergarden, the Gem Battlefield, The Sea Shrine, Pink Diamond's Garden, and more (Feel free to use the Steven Universe Fandom Wiki site). You also have Corrupted Gems; those who got caught in the cross fire by the diamonds and turned into abominations, you can argue that these can be used as minions and bosses to fight against, and may provide a fresh amount of detail to spice up combat situations.

Heck, if you want to have a look at the show itself, Season 4 of Steven Universe was practically the equivilent of an Adventure Time style of telling post apocalyptic themes. It also dabbles in managing conflicting technologies from the futuristic Diamond's tech, to the mundane human machinery, and you see Steven Universe characters having to use and balance both sides together. There is a literal episode showing this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvfLpR7xPdk

Steven Universe brings both Light and Dark Elements that meshes wonderfully with Li, from the inter-connected stories, the goofy adventures, the conflicting character developments ( Oh lord, the character developments), redeemable villains and fallen heroes, and crazy abilities that practically scream Super Smash Bros. style and Brawhalla even SHOWS this!!

Tone wise, I feel as though Steven Universe fits in the category that if you mix Legend of Zelda and the Metroid series together. 

So, with that being said and done. Steven Universe should be given a chance and allow all it's characters to take a place within Li, with the show that recently ended, and a HUGE variety of locations to explore, canon to use and OC's to create. I honestly say to just give it a chance.

I must say yes. A resounding Yes.

[Mari]

I would like to quickly specify that the primary reason Warhammer 40k wasn't considered was because as a grimdark series it is so far removed from Li's land of goofy heroics and epic individualism that we felt it was very likely to negatively impact people's enjoyment of the site. It wasn't necessarily because of the fandom.

[cynda1]

My thoughts on allowing Steven Universe on the site is a bit mixed. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the show, but I did like certain elements of it (Peridot... j-just Peridot. She's literally the only thing in the show that I consistently liked from start to finish.) But putting my biases aside, I think there are a few factors that might need to be considered before allowing something like Steven Universe in.

First of all Steven himself. Frankly, a lot of Steven's powers don't even really make any sense. I understand that powers are going to be nerfed upon entry, but when I say they don't really make any sense, I'm not saying it's over powered. I'm saying they don't make any sense. For example, whenever Steven would turn into Pink Steven, he could slow down time for some reason... why? This was never established before Future, so why did he suddenly have this power? It's not like he witnessed someone use it before, he just... somehow has it. So I'd suggest if you let the show in, whoever creates Steven should probably have a bit of consistency with his powers.

But that brings up another issue. Mr. Bad Time suggested that the staff needs to keep an extra eye out for whoever plays the Diamonds or Steven, and while I do feel like consistency is needed for Steven, I don't think it's necessarily fair to have these characters under more scrutiny than, say, the Ultimate Life Form, or a Thaumaturge who was literally a god at some point. I mean I get it, they're literally the strongest characters on their show, but we've nerfed people before. If we have to be extra careful with these characters out of necessity, I don't think it's worth having it be allowed. I feel like it's might just cause problems.

Now here's the third issue: the Gems. Including the Gems means including an entire array of culture from the Steven Universe franchise. Consider bubbling. What happens when a character that's not a gem is bubbled. If that character is bubbled, can the character be sent somewhere else? Are they turned into trophies when they're bubbled? Another thing to consider is how the gems powers will be affected in Li. Considering the fact that something as simple as a Pokeball, meant to only catch Pokemon, can now capture basically anything, how will that affect gems? There's also Lion and Lars to consider, how will they be affected by Li? I know this kind of goes without saying, but considering the fact that Steven Universe the show explained certain elements so well without explaining others and in some cases retconning them, and just not explaining others at all, it's sort of just left to whoever's writing the character to decide what's true or not.

There's also the fact that Gems seem to be immune to certain things, and then not immune to other things. So how does that translate in Li? Because if one Gem is affected then all of them have to be, and if one Gem isn't then the same thing applies. For example, Blue Diamond has the ability to force gems to be overwhelmed by sadness. This doesn't affect humans, but it affects all gems. Some more than others, but it still affects them none the less. So how does, say, Starvia affect a gem if at all? I'm unsure if there are characters I'm unaware of that already exist and have this issue (I know Shadow's implied to be immune to many diseases, but I can at least imagine it possible for him to contract the Starvia virus), but when a Gem's astral body is made of light, and the true self is actually a gem, how do you justify a rock being infected by Starvia?

Anyway, if you guys feel like you have a solution for all the problems I stated here, and everything Phreeze and Mr. Bad Time sad before, then go for it. If not, then I'd suggest maybe not doing it or at least holding it off until you're ready. Bringing Steven Universe in means bringing in an entirely new species of living beings into your site, and with that comes I think the most problematic part... being able to bubble someone, like I mentioned earlier. Again, it doesn't really bother me if you let them in or not, I doubt we'd let a mean SU fan stay for very long. And even if it does become a problem, you can always put a stop to it later.

[TartoonHand94]

Okay, I don’t usually participate in the Whitelisting process, but I’m going to start with this one because it matters enough to me.
I’m not here to take a yes or no stance on whether or not it should be Whitelisted. What I Am here to do is rectify some misinformation influencing your decision.
This turned out to be so long, I’m gonna split it into parts.
Let me start by saying I am a Steven Universe fan. I’ve been following the series since its inception. Since Rebecca Sugar finished her last episode of Adventure Time to start working on it, I saw the original test pilot when it leaked, and I followed the series all the way to the last episode of Steven Universe Future when it released.

I was there before it was popular and I saw the fandom discover it, gather around it and grow toxic in real time. So I Know what I’m talking about when I say not everything you’ve heard about it is true.

I’m going to say first of all, Yes, the SU fandom, as the internet knows it, Is Toxic. But No, that is Not the show’s fault.

Jun 23, 2020 20:04:22 GMT -8 @phreezey said:

somewhat controversial video

SU neither creates nor encourages the behavior exhibited in this video. You can even see the twitter replies from Ian Jones Quarterly trying to discourage taking the bait.

You know Jojo fans making Jojo References are repeating jokes they got from the series. Toxic SU fan culture is defined by its unique ability to Not Learn any of the lessons of empathy, compassion, tolerance or acceptance that the series is trying so desperately to teach.
The toxicity of the fandom is not Steven Universe culture, it’s pre-existing Tumblr.com culture that finally found something to latch onto. Tumblr culture that either adores something irrationally or despises something irrationally with no middle ground.
If anyone remembers examples that I shared from the now defunct Kid Icarus Discord, it was just as toxic if not worse, because it got all its members from Tumblr.

And as fans of Super Smash Bros. who are We to denounce another fandom as completely toxic? What our fandoms have most in common is that our loudest screamers are entitled and spoiled. People are toxic, people are going to Be toxic, and all they need is something to be toxic About.

And I’ve seen this Tumblr toxicity give rise to a Book’s worth of bad takes and misinterpretations of the show in real time as episodes came out. Most of them fueled  simply by petty dissatisfaction born of putting the show on too high on a pedestal and, I’m dead serious, the desire to hate on the show because it was popular now.

Jun 23, 2020 20:04:22 GMT -8 @phreezey said:

this video (another controversial one due to the fanbase)

I’ve listened to all 45:41 of this and from the way it carries the tone at 4:57 throughout, I’m Amazed it was treated like a credible source here. The series is Not exempt from criticism, it Is very flawed, but too many of the accusations pointed against it simply not based in accuracy.

This Already long post would never end if I tried to name them one by one, but because of who comes up with them, they’re easy to believe if you haven’t seen the series for yourself.

[TartoonHand94]

But the one accusation I am going to address, is the notion that the series “Teaches children to Forgive the Nazis.” Because it’s the pinnacle example of false interpretations of the show and it repulses me to my core.

It particularly gets under my skin, because of where it comes from: It comes from viewers who just wanted Steven to Kill (in-universe term Shatter) the Diamonds. They’re the head villains of the series and everybody justly hates them for what they’ve done…
…But to Expect Steven to try to kill them, would be to disregard every step of character development he took, everything he learned about himself, his mother, his friends, and the Diamonds themselves, since the very first episode.

It’s fun to accuse Rebecca Sugar, who is Jewish, for promoting a dangerous message because it’s fun to ignore Steven’s place and agency in his own story.

Steven Universe is not a character who brutally slaughters henchmen right and left and lets the boss live so there can be a sequel. Steven has Always extended this hand of mercy to Everyone, friend and foe alike. Of Course he wasn’t just going to snap at the last minute and murder someone in cold blood just because they’re Your least favorite villain!

Having learned from his mother’s mistakes, Steven decided he didn’t want to fight them, he wanted to talk them down. He knew he wasn’t strong enough to shatter them even if he wanted to, and he saw what fighting them resulted in when his mom tried to. But by this point, he Knew them, he knew what to say to them, and most importantly, he put them in a position where they were forced to listen this time.

His goal wasn’t to befriend them: it was to End the Cycle of Violence that has caused every problem in his world.
What’s baffling everyone is that it worked. It was Not easy, it took all of the of the 4 episodes overcoming constant obstacles to make it happen, but everybody’s mad that it Worked.

A justified criticism is that they were redeemed too quickly. They only had the last 3 episodes of the series to Heel-Face turn, while characters, their subordinates, had arcs spanning multiple seasons to do so. There was indeed a precedent the writers set but did not live up to.

Another true take is that it’s asinine and it cannot be directly applied to our real world. Not Everything has to be a metaphor. Some deeds are noble in their own fictional contexts.
But people like to make the one-to-one comparison and condemn it because that’s easier than learning to try a better way to resolve conflict than violence.

Another important point I want to make is that he did not even Forgive them. He didn’t let them off the hook scott free: He held them Accountable for what they’ve done, compelled them to repent and change, and made them Atone for their crimes! Now they dedicate their existence in the time skip, and throughout the Movie and Future to dismantling the empire, restoring the gems they’ve corrupted and amending the damage they’ve done to the galaxy.

And doesn’t even reward them for it either. The Movie starts with them wanting him to stay and live with them, but he doesn’t give them that. He still hates them deep down and this is a running plot point Especially in Future. It turns out he Does still want to kill them deep down, and the thought terrifies him. But you never hear about That, now do ya?

SPOILER: Click to show

I think I’ve made my point about that take, but food for thought: There are heroes on Li even More guilty of “forgiving the ‘nazis’ of their world” than Steven ever was. I play four of them, plus two characters they're forgiving!
After all the damage Bowser’s done to the Mushroom Kingdom, Isle Delfino, Space and the planet in Odyssey, what is this moment?

SPOILER: Click to show

How is Bowser still invited to come play Tennis, Golf, Party, participate in the Olympics and Go-Karting? And then, when the friendly party’s over, he goes right back to committing war crimes all over again. But we don’t want to acknowledge That problematic message because we don’t want a reason to hate on Mario, now do we?

Tl;dr and tl;dw the poisonous messages of Steven Universe are deliberate misinterpretations based in the purpose of slander.
And it didn’t create its toxic fandom, toxic people were just attracted to it.

I'm just standing up for my favorite Cartoon Cartoon. Please, acknowledge its faults and criticize it, but Please, let the faults you criticize be the Real ones.

[TartoonHand94]

Okay, Part 3,
Clarifying some truths about the series.

---

How Gems work:
Here’s a first-hand source of what Gems are and how they work.
And here’s how they’re made.

Tl;dw, they’re a lot like Trophies: KO them, they go inanimate. But unlike trophies, they can revive autonomously. Bubbling stops them from reviving because there’s not enough space to reform. Poof a Gem, capture the gemstone in a Pokéball, the gem can’t reform either. (Or can they? Pokéballs turn Pokemon into light, don’t they?)

Bubbling is something only Gems can do, and that’s far from the only way characters on Li trap and restrain each other, isn’t it?

Fusion:
And as for Fusion, it is a nuanced subject by design: It’s two gems combining their light to make a new physical form together. That’s it. That’s all it is.
Because it’s a character-driven show, Fusion is characterized as a metaphor for relationships. Not Just sex, Not Just romance, but all relationships of every scope; platonic, professional, awkward, intimate and even all the way down to a mutual hatred of something, apparently. “If our friendship was a person, what would that person be like?” That’s it. That’s the whole question of fusion.

And fusion is something only Gems and the one half-Gem can do just like going Super Saiyan is something only Saiyans and half-Saiyans can do. Gems can only fuse with other Gems and Steven’s only able to fuse with organic beings because he’s half organic himself.

All the “touchy themes” that fusion has represented thus far, have Already been explored on Li before. 

How Steven Works:

Jun 26, 2020 21:18:16 GMT -8 cynda1 said:

First of all Steven himself. Frankly, a lot of Steven's powers don't even really make any sense. I understand that powers are going to be nerfed upon entry, but when I say they don't really make any sense, I'm not saying it's over powered. I'm saying they don't make any sense. For example, whenever Steven would turn into Pink Steven, he could slow down time for some reason... why? This was never established before Future, so why did he suddenly have this power? It's not like he witnessed someone use it before, he just... somehow has it. So I'd suggest if you let the show in, whoever creates Steven should probably have a bit of consistency with his powers.

Steven’s powers don’t “come out of nowhere.” He’s half-Diamond, half Human and he’s more of a product of these power sets than a sum. His newly developing powers are as much as a surprise to himself as your body is to you when you go through puberty without a guide. He doesn’t know what they are, nobody does, because he’s the first of his kind!
But we do figure out that they are activated by his emotions and throughout the series it becomes clear that he’s so sweet and sensitive because his ability to empathize with others is a superpower. He can do things like enter your dreams, his saliva has healing properties that work on both organic and mineral matter and everything else he can do beyond that is cataloged on the Wiki. steven-universe.fandom.com/wiki/Steven_Universe_(character)#Abilities It’s pretty easy to keep track of.

To explain Pink Steven would be to explain all of Steven Universe Future, but it’s a manifestation of him having a Quarter-Life crisis, which the whole spin-off is about exploring.

It’s never been established before Future because its new to Future and new to Him. It’s like asking “Why hasn’t this new phenomenon that surprises, confuses and scares the characters who’ve never seen it before, ever been explained before?”

[TartoonHand94]

And finally, Part 4:
How would it work on Li?

---

Mr. Bad-Times name-dropped a lot of events and locations, which to explain would be to straight up Tell you the show’s story.

Steven Universe does indeed take place in a post-apocalyptic world, from the perspective of the Gems. The Diamonds tried to colonize earth, Rose Quartz led a rebellion against them and drove them off the planet, at a terrible price. They’re like R.O.B.s in the SSE and the Diamonds are relevant for as much as the plot as Tabuu is. The Crystal Gems are all just the one playable R.O.B. left behind after the Isle of Ancients was blown up.

It’s an easter-egg plot point of the series, but human history of SU’s world is wildly divergent from ours thanks to Gem influence. But the humans of SU’s world are just ordinary people. Unless you’re taking a named character, there’s nothing that would define a human as special for having come from this world except their version of world history. Gems, on the other hand…

You don’t even have to take SU’s Earth and slam it into Li, everything the Diamond Galactic Empire created on Earth could conceivably be created from scratch on Li.
Li could just be another planet the Diamond empire wanted to colonize. Either our video game heroes fight them off on their own, or the Crystal Gems themselves show up to help. There’s actually a perfect gap in the series timeline where this kind of thing could happen: After the series finale and before the movie.

The Diamonds are the strongest characters in the series, but we have characters already apped that are stronger than them. But I’d also wonder why anyone who knows the Diamonds enough to play them would even Want to. Especially when there’s a whole roster of more fun canon characters to play as and explore, plus an infinite roster of potential OCs that the series lore has been designed to accommodate.
Gems can come in every shape size and color, and they can be the same kind of Gem as any canon, yet be an entirely different character. There’s even more creative freedom here than with Pokémon.
You can do with Gems what we’ve done with Peach, Witch Peach, Peach Q, all the Arle doppels, without bending the canon even slightly.

The world building and lore of Steven Universe is much better put together and defined than Adventure Time’s, which can get even more nonsensical than Mario’s.
I’ve seen all of Adventure Time too, by the way, and I argue Steven Universe’s lore is even more compatible with Li.

But my purpose is not to take a stance to whether it should be whitelisted or not, just to give you all a better-informed opinion for your stance.
I'm done now. I'll see myself out.

[cynda1]

I just wanted to note that I never said Steven's powers come out of nowhere. I said that they don't make sense, though perhaps I should just clarify that some of his powers may give writers for him balancing issues. That's all I'm trying to say about him.

Aside from that, I still say if you can make it work, then by all means go for it! :3

[Nostalgia]

I would prefer Steven Universe not come to Li. I can personally enjoy the show, but there are alot of parts of it that are uncomfortable. Alot of them have already been mentioned, I really feel like I need to focus on the fusion part. I understand that they are a metaphor for relationships, but it is extremely sexualized throughout the series and I think it would be uncomfortable to have those themes brought so explicitly to the site. You can call it a metaphor for other things, but that does not change the way it comes off, which has made many many people uncomfortable in the past.

The ability to fuse being limited does not change very much, as I'm fairly certain people will try to find ways around it. And then there's steven, who can fuse with anything organic, which will continue to make it uncomfortable.

[cynda1]

Oops! Sorry, one more thing I need to mention! I thought I wrote this out earlier, but I guess I didn't. So even if we don't take into account everything that Nost said about fusion (which I obviously think we should) how would fusion even work as a mechanic in Li? I mean, I know we had Shasonus for a bit, but I doubt Isonus ceased to exist because Shasonus did. When gems fuse they not only create an entirely new gem but the other two gems disappear and become one gem. Who would play the gem? How would that be decided? We don't have any sort of mechanic like what fusion would be so there would inevitably be an unfairness in the event of a fusion. On top of that, fusions have their own sets of powers, so would there be a separate character sheet for each fusion? That just seems like a concept much too complicated for the site.

[Mari]

Yo! I'd like to chime in with two bits of details.

1) We have a rare item on the site called the DNA Splicers. It comes from Pokemon, where it was a key item that Ghetsis and later the player used to force/allow Kyurem and Reshiram/Zekrom to fuse in BW2. It's been used a few times both for willing fusions and not-strictly-willing fusions, though the item itself was never intended to allow for unwilling fusions. Its flavor text and mechanics both contradict this idea, since your ability to cooperate with your partner via a charisma roll directly translates into how long the fusion lasts. I am assuming that Steven Universe fusion would be a weaker version of this. I believe that Amitwo has a move that, while not itself fusion, could pretty easily be adapted to represent fusion with its mechanics.

2) It appears that the idea that fusion in Steven Universe is somehow analogous for sex is factually incorrect. The show does not depict it as such and the creator has directly stated otherwise. Apparently, this idea was manufactured by "certain groups" to stir up drama in an attempt to attack the show. I bring this up because I fear that if this isn't addressed, it might cause arguments.

Garnet's fusion is a representation of love. Not sex. And most other fusions are a representation of friendship/comradery. It's an anime powerup that requires you to get along with and work together with whoever you're fusing with, not a sex thing. Just to be clear.

[cynda1]

Sorry, me again! Don’t wanna be a pest or anything, but trying to make sure everything is covered. What Marin just said, I had agreed with up until the near ending for Future. Specifically when one creator came out with an interesting little tidbit that Peridot was meant to be a representation for Asexuals and that that was the reason she never fused. Because of this, the message gets muddled especially when none of the creators did a thing to clear this up. So even though I think the concept would be cool, and again I’m more than okay with it coexisting in Li, it doesn’t affect me at all, I can’t help but bring this up because that might be a bit of info hard to unlearn. 

If there’s a way to work around the mechanical issues, then my suggestion for this problem would be broaden the scope of fusion a bit. Make it available for relationships if you like, but maybe allow them to fuse strictly for battle purposes. Make the dancing optional, and make it clear that while it can be intimate it doesn’t have to be. But that’s just me.

[Maverick Hunter Zero]

I would agree with Mari on this one and Tartoon gives plenty of good info as well, I'd be down for giving SU a chance, if at all possible.